【香霖开箱】Alert Line界线玩模 二战苏军女兵人 AL100031/AL10032

LHW

Argento 发表于 2021-1-14 17:38
I was confused at first by Alert Line's choice of colour, but Osprey books and films are not always  ...

内务人民委员部（NKVD）是苏联下辖的主要秘密警察机关，负责在斯大林主义时代的政治迫害。它执行过大量的法外处决、运作古拉格强迫劳动系统、执行将多个民族和被标签为富农的平民放逐到人烟稀少地方的大规模放逐、防卫边境、在国外进行间谍和政治暗杀、颠覆外国政府和在其他国家的共产运动中实施斯大林主义政策。所以，这个大衣领章应该是砖红色的。苏联国家安全委员会（NKGB）除了国家安全和警察功能外，它的一些部门也负责其他事务，如防火、国境警备和档案管理等。所以，这个大衣的领章应该是蓝色的，警察制服的领章就是蓝色的。

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Argento

LHW 发表于 2021-1-15 05:01
内务人民委员部（NKVD）是苏联下辖的主要秘密警察机关，负责在斯大林主义时代的政治迫害。它执行过大量的 ...

To clarify, the NKVD coat should have red tabs, and the NKGB coat blue tabs?
I think the original confusion was that State Security organisations (NKVD/NKGB) had a muddled history. The NKGB was formed from part of the NKVD in 1941, then later that year merged back into the NKVD. In 1943 the NKGB was recreated again as a separate Commissariat:

On 3 February 1941, the 4th Department (Special Section, OO) of GUGB within the NKVD security service responsible for the Red Army military counter-intelligence, consisting of 12 Sections and one Investigation Unit, was separated from the GUGB NKVD. The official liquidation of the OO GUGB and GUGB as organized units within the NKVD was announced on 12 February 1941 by a joint order № 00151/003 of the NKVD and NKGB USSR.

The rest of the GUGB was abolished and staff were moved to the newly created People's Commissariat for State Security (NKGB).

The Soviet security organizations were merged in July 1941, after the Axis invasion, with the NKGB Directorates returned to NKVD as separate units. During 1943 changes NKGB was created again as separate Commissariat.

The Alert Line figure wears M43 uniform, so might represent the period when changes were happening, yet during wartime unit markings may not have been updated immediately? Or that she is simply NKGB?

To conclude, I find it interesting that Alert Line chose blue as it is so unusual. Which leads me to belive they did it for a reason and had a source. The colours match the State Security Colonel's greatcoat, and also match the descriptions in the old document (https://otlichnik.tripod.com/uniform3.html).

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LHW

Argento 发表于 2021-1-15 14:14
To clarify, the NKVD coat should have red tabs, and the NKGB coat blue tabs?
I think the origina ...

界线做的应该是大家比较熟悉的内务部造型，所以用红色领章更符合一些。

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Argento

LHW 发表于 2021-1-15 08:52
界线做的应该是大家比较熟悉的内务部造型，所以用红色领章更符合一些。

You mentioned blue for police earlier, and in trying to track down the unit identification for the "unique royal blue with sky blue piping collar tabs", I found another example here:

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/v ... -collar-tab-699163/




It was identified as likely to be "...a tab for an overcoat. Militia 1943 - 1947".

The Militia, or Militsiya, was the NKVD Police Troop. The 1943 date ties back to the introduction of the blue M43 coat collar tab.

Interestingly, the 1946 US War Department "Handbook on USSR Military Forces, Chapter IV, Semi-Military Organizations" noted:

The Police Troops (militia) of the NKVD are a uniformed force to suppress crime and control traffic...Women were recruited' extensively for Police Troops during World War II.

https://digitalcommons.unl.edu/c ... context=dodmilintel


It feels like the pieces of the puzzle are coming together.

EDIT:

Just found this page showing 1943 Militsiya shoulder boards, which match the colours of the coat collar tab, confiriming that they do represent the NKVD police:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wi ... he_Soviet_Militsiya

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wi ... siya_rank_insignia_(1943)

e.g.,

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LHW

Argento 发表于 2021-1-15 23:09
You mentioned blue for police earlier, and in trying to track down the unit identification for the ...

这里不聊内务部警察，界线的这款制服标定就是内务部所属部队军官，砖红色的领章是最显著的标志。

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Argento

LHW 发表于 2021-1-15 23:30
这里不聊内务部警察，界线的这款制服标定就是内务部所属部队军官，砖红色的领章是最显著的标志。

Yes, the Militsiya is a false lead.

However, it did identify the "royal blue with sky blue piping" coat collar tabs described in the 'Otlichnik' document. I have discovered that the author of that document was Shawn Caza, who was apparently a noted aficionado on all matters State Security.

Also of note is that the Militsiya colours were introduced in 1943, and Shawn Caza claimed that coat "...collar tabs are royal blue piped with light blue as introduced for NKVD officers' coats in 1943."

It's a shame that the photographs have long disappeared, and only their descriptions remain.

Caza makes the claim three times.

1.

...NKVD/NKGB personnel; greatcoats, overcoats...Both greatcoats and overcoats have rank insignia. They use brass buttons, standard gold service boards, and special collar tabs. The collar tabs are royal blue with sky blue piping and have a large brass button in the upper portion.

2.

An M43 NKVD State Security Major's overcoat...Note the unique royal blue with sky blue piping collar tabs and gold and royal blue service boards. The overcoat is a rare item which was not issued to all officers.

3.

In this close-up of the above coat the royal blue striped and piped gold shoulder boards with major's stars can clearly be seen. The collar tabs are royal blue piped with light blue as introduced for NKVD officers' coats in 1943. There is a large brass button on each collar tab.

Therefore, blue Militsiya style collar tabs appear on a coat that has NKVD Interior shoulder boards.

The only photographic evidence of I have seen is this NKVD colonel's coat:




It's a mystery. Maybe an anomaly. But in 1943 State Security was changing, it was obviously wartime and not everything was as organised or as correct as it might be in peacetime.

Caza notes, for example, that in 1943 there was a shortage of the new uniquely shaped shoulder boards.

As a result many NKVD/NKGB officers used cavalry or air force boards on their tunics instead of going without boards.

Caza seemed definite, and his analysis of State Security uniforms were very detailed. But the information is old, and there's so little photographic evidence.

Yet, for some reason Alert Line also chose blue rather than the more widespread red/maroon.

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LHW

Argento 发表于 2021-1-16 16:22
Yes, the Militsiya is a false lead.

However, it did identify the "royal blue with sky blue pipi ...

这个是警察的大衣。

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